S.P.A.C.E – EPISODE #1- Living Indoor – a new domestic dimension (ENG)

hello to everyone welcome to S.P.A.C.E.-Talks.
I'm Zeta Chrysafaki. I'm an architect from Chania, Crete and i would
like to welcome you to this initiative that we have organised with some persons from other countries. Our association is Piliko. and together with Rahovitza Slow-tech
Campus from Bulgaria, AK0-architettura a kilometro zero, Italy and VAHA Virtual Architecture Handicrafts Art in Italy We have decided to do online debates
on architecture, environment and cooperation. And all this of course came
out from our mandatory or voluntary (for some cases it is voluntary)
lockdowns and that we were trapped into flats and houses all over the world. That was a challenge for a living space. And then this idea that at the same time the wide synchrony provides opportunities to
start a collective reflection on the way we use how to live inside
places. S.P.A.C.E.-Talks is thought as a hub to exchange knowledge and
sharing across Europe. Every week two experts and one moderator will debate on issues of contemporary architecture, environment and technology as well as international cooperation, gathered under the topics Home, Tools and

Home includes all the issues that have to do with the direct dimension with the places we live in including the impacts in our private choices they can have on society or the
environment. Tools refers to all these discussions that imply technological
innovations or paradigmatic changes in the way we do things. And of course,
Together highlights the social dimension of how we shape our
common space and which processes of production, decision making or all the
social interaction are applied in this. I would like to welcome you today on our
first episode. we have two interesting and young guests: Anna Sundman and Filka Sekulova. Anna Sundman is an architect from Sweden and Filka Sekulova is a psychologist and ecological economist from Bulgaria and she lives in Spain. and the topic that we are talking about today is Living indoor – a new domestic dimension. Hello Anna, hi Filka. Welcome and thank
you very much for accepting our invitation to this initiative. I would like to leave you talk about yourself first of all, about your interests and your specific research or main items. . Please Anna, can you tell us about you? Thank you so much for inviting
me to this interesting topic.

My name is Anna Sundman. I'm an architect in Stockholm, Sweden and I'm the co-founder of an architectural practice called
Theory Into Practice and we work mainly in housing and urban planning looking for new ways
to formulate how we can utilize our resources in better ways; more innovative approaches to redesign our built environment to better suit our needs. I'm also the co-founder of Architectural and Environmental Strategies an NGO based
here in Sweden and also as a part member of Building Impact Zero Network which I think connected us together through AK0. And Filka? Hello Zeta. Thanks to everyone for being there. I mean, we're living in times when attending another webinar is not that easy. We are just so much overflown
with with online events and talks so it's really
appreciative to know that we have people behind the screens out there listening.
in human bodies.

No? So, about me I'm a post-doctor researcher at the Universidad Autónoma de Barcelona and working on the issues that have to do
with them are mostly social scientists, so nothing to do with architecture. In my track story there is ecology then moved on to economics, environment ecological
economics. Then I started studying happiness. Then I moved on to
community-based initiatives and now I'm recently looking into naturalizing
urban landscapes and there is a current research project called Naturvation.

a Horizon2020 project that we're doing with other six other universities in Europe and I'm a member of a think-tank which is called research integral where we commonly think about defining degrowth and applying some of
the principles behind that theory and practice . and the ideas behind, more or less. This is shortly about me. Okay, very nice. All of us have lived all this last the
period locked down. As we have said a little bit while discussing between the three of us, some of us were mandatory and some of us voluntary lockdowns We have seen that for example in Sweden the lockdown was not mandatory but

Can you explain a little bit what it is, Anna? yes. Here in Sweden,
since the corona outbreak started, we've had a more voluntary lockdown. We have
been advised to reduce the amount of contacts and not making any unnecessary
movements or travel. This had a great effect on the society as a whole;
with a reduction of our everyday life. many people are
secluded mostly to interact only with their closest family within the same
household. However, there are workplaces where you are still allowed,
depending on the situation at your work, and how how its organized, depending on
the size and the amount of people and the possibility to be distancing from
each other. So everyone is to be advised to look over their own situation and
what's possible within your own life and lifestyle to make appropriate

But the government has not made any restrictions. Well, we're not allowed to to gather in larger groups and they've made
certain restrictions but it's different in relationship
to other European countries, as I understand it. yes. Filka? What is the
experience in in Spain? I think it's more similar to our experience here in
Greece where mandatorily you have to stay home. No? Well, it has been pretty hard since more or less the 15th of March. People being locked down in their homes, and that went on for almost two months. And mostly children were not allowed to walk out of the homes. Pretty strict measures apart from, yes you are allowed to go to the shop, you're allowed to go to a certain type of work that's really essential. we had two or three weeks when only the workers in essential industries
could go and perform their duties. It's mostly in the agriculture sector, repair works and care works. I can't judge the adequacy of that measure, because it can't really be compared across countries.

I think to an extent the type of measures that have been applied in the Nordic and southern part of Europe have to do with a cultural aspect. For me, voluntary social distancing is much
easier to introduce in Sweden because the culture there is
different in terms of gathering, touching each other, like maintaining the
physical distance. While southern Europe is more about hugging and
embracing and if they hang out in big groups a lot.

And it's the kind of situation that creates the perfect conditions for spreading virus. Of course it's just one hypothetical explanation that I have in
my mind and it's not based on science in any kind of way. But, in a sense,
perhaps southern countries needed a bit stricter measures and some sort of
police enforcement in order to kind of really voluntary distance, because this means rejecting the type of culture, the type of lifestyle that you're
having. But of course, on the other hand, these measures have been really hard. And this is what actually inspired me to start
a survey on the state of emotional well-being of people in stay during the
confinement period. And there are a lot of interesting things coming out but I'll talk about that later.

Yes. Even if it is one way or the other.
Sure is that the persons and the family lives found themselves studying and working together and all this activity has suddenly happened inside our houses. So I would like to come to some more details on this because some psychological terms have occurred that are different while living indoor for long periods compared to the past of course. And I would like to hear a little bit from you:
How can this affect the meaning of being home? Because home used to be our
shelter. Home used to be something where we were keeping us protected from other
things from other people and now this is a little bit different. Of course, the private and the common have somehow come together in our homes. so the question is: which are the psychological effects that occur while living indoor for long periods? And how can we define the relationship of private and
common in our houses after all this period and the needs that occur in
the living space? Anna, would you like to share your ideas about this? I think we can see how during this crisis, we require a lot
more of our homes now.

I think we can see that, at least in Sweden, people have become very aware of the resources you have available in your home. If you've been able to work from home this has been the
preferred choice for many and this requires this distancing from from noise
in order to be able to attend meetings. So we've seen how homes are used in a
different way than than before. But it also
shines a bit of light on the need for having designed a living space that it's
capable of handling multiple functions going on at the same time by finding
enough space for different activities to happen at the same time. I think these
are some things we've known before but I think we became more
aware of it during these crises where notice more which resources
each person has available and there has occurred more of a an opening,
up to seeing people's more intimate space being shown in work meetings. so I think this is also a shifted perspective of how we perhaps could view
each other and also the living spaces that we have access to.

And this is a
discussion which is very much welcome because I think it addresses
the core issues in architecture, of how to create living spaces that
really contributes to ease people's lives and to have a good access;
in Sweden, access to daylight, for example. . The asset that your home
has sufficient daylight is a key factor. and this is obviously something
that has been slowly changing as this urban pressure of making smaller homes to sell more grew. You can now see apartments that are not
really designed for spending the entire day at home. This is really highlighting this need for what architects also need to provide in order to be able to spend that amount of time in these spaces. So, do you think that all the housing types
that we have now are suitable for the actual families that have been created through this? And if not, which do you think are features that are missing in order to have these suitable types? From a Swedish perspective I could see
that we have got a little bit stuck in the in the nuclear family
and in modernism.

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And the planning is centered in a way that
there is a home and then there is a workplace that you leave to go to. And if we're now
thinking more in flexible terms on how we use spaces
or whether we work from home; or people are even starting to mention that there's a lot of aspects
that they prefer. Perhaps most people could reconstruct
their lives to be also working more from home And what would that
then require from that space? I think today we would need to break free and
rethink some of those models that we've been introduced to and also to look more at
how shared space could be within the home.

Basically, perhaps, we have a certain amount of private, intimate space, but perhaps more shared space that it's possible to share in in a larger group, not necessarily just with within the apartment. Different co-housing or co-living situations would be very interesting to look at how to redistribute space and make
resources more available in the close local community. So not only in our own homes but in many houses and in a group of houses, you mean? Yes. I think it could be an interesting development seeing how spaces could be utilized.

And more flexible space is basically closer to home. There is a bigger
discussion going on and a bigger interest in these issues. It was also before the crisis but I think even now we're seeing how to make
spaces available and also affordable then. And obviously sharing is one thing
that makes it more accessible and affordable. Okay. a small announcement:
I would like to say to the our audience that if they want they can write in the YouTube-chat
any question that they want to ask to our guests and at the end of our conversation
we're going pose these questions to our

Filka, what is your opinion about all this issue? how the private and
common in our house has changed and how is the new house probably? In which way it works? Well, so many things to say I very much agree with Anna that we have
definitely become very much aware of what are the resources of our homes. But still, I would say that it's very difficult to
perceive the phenomenon of staying indoors as separate from the sense of
insecurity and fear that the health pandemics has actually brought. so it's very different to stay at home out of voluntary reasons or rather doing this things out of pressure So ones do it by obligation and by fear and the others try to do it by pleasure But, I need to depart
from the idea that staying at home is mostly a privileged position because a big part, or at least a certain fraction of population, those who
don't have safe and comfortable homes, those that live in spaces with house violence or with oppressive members of the household, those who work in,
let's say, supermarkets or in the essential industries, or cleaning streets etc., those who are very much at the front
line of the Covid.

Are not the ones that could afford themselves to stay at home. Mostly it is the middle class is the one who is having this privilege;
they could actually; the service economy, which could actually work online is the one that could stay at home. I would still say let's also consider that, and that there is a big part of the
population that we are forgetting about when we talk about staying at home, in
the meaning of home. And the meaning of home, even in the sense of small house would still be preferable for someone who doesn't have a home at all. Right? So it's good to consider that.
But anyhow, In this survey that we just mentioned on
how people are living and on how people have been experiencing the confinement you could
see a very big difference in the people who have access to nature Because there are people's responses from Spain, responses from United States from England or responses from Bulgaria and Germany.

And you could see that emotional well-being and the sense of home of the
people who have access to garden, who have been able to walk and have a
direct contact with certain type of physical activities outside is doing much better. so, integrating the green or
the nature in our concept of home is influencing very strongly our persistence of well-being. While the people who have been
confined in their flats even if they are perhaps glad of having a terrace with lots of plants and enough daylight and spaces
for co-working; still these are the people that have been much more affected
by the confinement.

Indeed I don't know up to what extent the sense of home could be achieved by architectural solutions, but rather, by rethinking the way we live. For example, I am living in a sort of co-housing where we are five households sharing a house, each of us having our own apartment in this house, but we share gardens, we share a forest, we share animals and we are like a little sub-unit. And we can keep on interacting with others. So you could see how our
well-being is a matter of personal perception. The way we've been living all these heavy
confinement in Spain is completely different and we have been so much more
privileged than the rest. And there we're are wondering:
couldn't we start thinking about creating homes that are based on more shared spaces? Let's say:
shared spaces for working because working from home means also
being able to disconnect from the large volume of productive work that most of us are having being able to concentrate when you hear
your children screaming next door being able to disconnect from all the stuff
that's going on in the household, emotionally and physically.

So, how do you do that? Perhaps, if we move into a concept of housing which is based not so much on mononuclear families but rather on grouping
individuals with their separate
apartments but shared spaces for gardening,
shared spaces for working that would create a much
healthier atmosphere for working. Because another result of the
questionnaire has been that, indeed, working from home for some people who
don't have such a big care workload, makes them feel okay. and they can find quality and time of personal reflection. While those who have the
children on top of them and who need to keep on cooking and providing
for the needs of their children, or other people need to take care of them; there working from home is very difficult.

You need to take that into account also and see how actually keeping and working from home could be also quite a burden. Another issue is the common and the private. My sense is that the more we have the home model the more we who could be confined. You could see that the common has been shrinking and at some point almost
disappearing. Actually the private is increasing.
You will need to defend your space from entering of other people. We also have seen this fear being out there. So the common is now
the digital, the visual, the smiles that you share with people cruising along the streets, the walking on the sidewalks. But the common spaces have lost
their meanings. Of course, I'm talking about the Spanish reality, because there is little that you can share with the others in times of confinement. And in post confinement, it is difficult to come back to this type of sharing of the space that we have before, because of the danger of
infection and reinfection.

In that sense I really think that architecturally we
need to think of co-housing more seriously and promote that kind of model where different units come together and have shared spaces as well and think about the common in a different space. in the most common sense of
shared resources and shared access to nature. And that's key for
the home feeling. Okay, you have reached the item in a
more sensitive or sentimental way I think. Anyway, in this recent times we have created new workgroups, which means we work from home; we have created
new ways of relating to workgroups. leaders or client. And this is a
challenge of course and an opportunity. And it is something to
think about: how our working relationships will change and how all
this can come to a new balance. My question is: how and to which extent
must our homes react to this evolution? What do you consider important to
maintain from the past and to pass to the future and what do you suggest
should change for a better living? Which reflections can be made on
the way we work? Can some of the experiences of sharing the place for
different functions while being less connected reflect the way that we
will or should work in the next future? What is your idea how
the work will change and how the houses are going to be changed because of that? Anna, would you like to to tell us a little bit about it? Yes I think a little bit that I touched the point before.

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I think we'll have to rethink a lot of systems that we've taken for granted and I think this crisis can open up for new ways of looking at it because now we're finding ourselves in a new system and having to redefine what brings us value.
How do we solve things? I probably didn't mention before that for example in Sweden right now the schools are still operating.

Children are going to school in Sweden, up to the age of 16.
So certain aspects are maintained within society too, also to relieve the
pressure in a way of otherwise having to restructure your life entirely to be
able to meet the needs of your children. This is also a little bit different.
It's online for older children but for children under the age of 16
schools are still open in Sweden. so this can also be a little bit different from
the perspective of what we're experiencing here, as the children do
leave the home to go to school. The home issue. I'm almost
inclined to say also it becomes a little bit more blurred that we need to look at the living environment as a whole and whether it is that we leave to
go to work or whether work is also being done at home for certain groups of

I think it will have an impact. I think also, as Filka mentioned,
the green spaces are becoming more important; connecting green spaces close
to home. We've seen how work breaks now are also walking around your house and
coming back in. And certain things start to shift
in our mind of what we're expecting from our close home environment. It's too early to say what this will bring with, but thinking of this time as a time of reflection and really reconsidering on
how we can transform things that we find brings us more value, that we think gives
us as humans a better base to function. I think this will be a very
interesting point of redefining what ideas we can bring and merge into a new
system; sort of altering a system that we thought were very locked in and these
last couple of months has shown us that this crisis has forced us to change the
system. so I am looking quite hopefully on people gathering good experiences, that then can be moulded into how we want to redefine and redefine our spaces
around us.

Okay Very different approach in
Sweden of course from other countries. in Greece for example and I think also in
Spain the the small children we're locked as first. The schools have
been closed and all our life has changed from one day to the other. Filka, I would like you to tell us a little bit about this; because
the children are part of our lives of course and in this, a very difficult
and interesting work has occurred. how we can manage working and growing
children inside the home from now on. And how can we cover the needs of our
children and how can we cover and continue to work in such a situation and probably also in the next months or in the future? Would you like to tell us about that? I would a little bit go back to the question of work perhaps, if you don't mind. Yes of course. So just a few things about what are the basic
takeaways of the way work changed? From the survey I could
see what the people mostly appreciate.

And one of the things that people
report to be most appreciative of is the fact that they had stopped commuting so much and that has liberated them
a lot more time. And somehow there is a sense of slowing down. And there is indeed something that we talk about a lot in degrowth theory: the need to slow down and the need to de-accelerate all our working rhythms; because that's not bringing us much more well-being somehow. That's not making us happier The more hours we work ,the more stress we have, the less time we have to relate with others, the less time we have for
meaningful activities and more likely we are to have kind of emotional issues
like depression or health issues So in that sense, work and the positive thinking
about working from home is that we have a little bit more time; you liberate time from commuting.

And this sense of slowing down that many
people have said is something new, that has come out all of a
sudden and that has opened space for new forms of relatedness, new ways of deeper type of conversations, time for
self-reflection, time for conversation Also staying at
home with the children indeed. That means that you could start to get to know your children a little bit better, because when you think about that you're
just sending them off in the morning, bringing them back in the evening. And now you're spending the whole day
together for two months. Somehow you start to understand who they are, because most of the time we somehow extrapolate the education of our children to others, and we trust them that they gonna do a good job. And in most
of the cases it is working well. but it's interesting to be trapped with your
children and somehow see them with your eyes and you reveal something very
interesting and you see something that you haven't seen before about how they are, how they respond to certain types of realities.

As for the issues of children, I don't know … Experience here has been that you don't really think I have to get too obsessed
about taking care of children, but try to keep good internal balance. If you are fine with yourself and taking care of yourself,
taking care of your resources, you're going to be able to take care of your children as well. But you feel always stretched between work stress, between fear of contagion, between taking care of your relatives and odd engagements and, on top of all, cleaning and take care of the children.

I think we're just like failing down and that reflects a lot our sense of
personal disturbance. It is also reflecting a lot on the well-being of our children. Okay, just one more point I just remember that looking at my notes, on the issue of work: Suddenly with the confinement we have
put together very productive work. and we could see which
are the most essential factors of society. What is the most essential for each of us? And you could see how suddenly these
jobs that were underappreciated before, which have to do with careful
elders, with a conflict, educating children, with growing food, with
distributing food, with selling food in supermarkets etc.

Or cleaning the
streets are the ones that really keep us going. It also reflects a bit on the idea we had on how
your life journey is going. If you are the most vulnerable, becoming
quite old and not capable of looking after yourself, the homes we've now
provided have turned out not to be as as safe as we thought. The number of staff
going through has been one course of why people have fallen ill and not
been able to survive this virus. Here it's also a kind of rethinking of the whole structure of the home and how to organize it. I think the most
positive ways that we've seen are the co-housing alternatives for elders where it's a more long-term commitment that you are becoming increasingly more
active when you are stimulated in a co-housing situation.

Although the co-housing initiatives that I'm aware of in Sweden with elders
living they have now closed the communal dinners that they normally have. Although this is a temporal decision, I think they're better
off in terms of aiming this kind of strength together and socializing,
perhaps in their garden still being in some sort of context with other elders. I think I'll leave it at that. okay I think that we have to do …. I would like to hear also something from Filka about this And we have to
finish somehow our topic. we have some questions but we don't have very much
time, unfortunately. so Filka would you like to say your opinion as well on this? I really much agree with Anna. My sense is that this crisis has
shown brightly the way how alienated our society is from the elderly, how we can excluded ourselves from the elderly and how sad
this is. And what is the real cost of that in a sense? The current residential homes mostly look like hospitals and the way elderly are situated in there elderly homes
that I've seen around, also in southern Europe.

It makes me think about how
can we act. Because a society whose elders are actually amputated and put in a satellite and visited once every two weeks is a society
which is losing part of its body, parts of its brain, part of its memory. And in our day to day lives
I'm missing the connection to the elderlies. And this makes me
realize that this depriving us as well. Us as well as them from
this type of diversity. So we need to think of ways to reintegrate the elderly in our in our day to day.

For example in one of the
projects for co-housing here in Spain, where a group is buying together an old factory, they are planning to separate
that factory in two buildings: one is going to be for the co-housing family and the other one
is going to host residential buildings for elderly people. Indeed elderlies
have their own spaces and still have a partially autonomous residence in their own space. And they're not like, let's say, patients in a hospital. They have a bit more personal sense of the space and
feel that they contribute to the day-to-day realities.

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There are many
beautiful examples of the break making: putting kindergarten together with
residential homes. Of course in the context of the Covid-crisis that's not the optimal. I would leave it here and say only that
we need to think of ways to reintegrate elderly in our day to day and see how we could
bring them in our communities and not only keep them in residential homes. Actually we feel
deeply how isolated they are right now, even more than at any other time
in the past. exactly.
That was the point also for our discussion: How to make our lives and the lives of all age groups better in a situation like this and also in the future of course.

Our last question,
somehow to hold everything together, is about the
environment and, of course, how can we have all the equilibrium; which means:
what does it mean for the new domestic dimension of living indoor to have environmental issues that can be handled from home? if Covid19, for example, was the reason for today's lockdown, as a side effect of mistreating the natural environment, governments and people
have more than ever the obligation to change their behaviours
into more ecological ways. How can people participate in environmental
protection by living and working inside their houses? Can this change the living
space as well? What is your opinion about this? Yes, I think one
important thing, that was mentioned earlier as well, is travel and
the way we have been transporting ourselves.

I think we'll see a great
improvement in terms of rethinking the transport system and just what we need and the sort of … What happened here around in Stockholm is the
micro mobility has taken over. because the the travels are not so far
now. And this is very hopeful
as travel is a big emitter of
greenhouse gases. so I think that as an environmental aspect can have a
big impact on on changing; whether we find ways of rethinking this
part of travel from your home to travel
to somewhere else. I also think that finding another way of redistributing our resources and
what's available to us will also be a way of sharing those resources more
wisely. so I think again, co-living and co-housing are interesting alternatives
in sharing certain types of spaces. and also making use of spaces different
times during the day. So, more flexible use could also be seen … in Sweden it'sa big cost of, obviously, heating and then it's very resource efficient if that
space is being used more than just a certain number of hours for one specific task So this could be quite interesting to bring forward in
redefining systems after the Covid19 crisis is over.

Of course, yes. Do you agree, Filka, with
that? What is your opinion about this environment issue? Yes, I would agree that
it might create some sort of reduction in energy consumption: special transport in terms of another use of electricity. Another thing is, like some people have been talking about, a higher level of simplicity: The more you stay home,
the more you realize that you don't need so much. So it is interesting to see
how this moment of confinement has for many people
involved a certain type of personal reflection on what they need for life. What they need for good life and how few they actually need for good life. So you could see how a certain number of people has started to talk and and to think about living more simply, and living with less; which somehow is the baseline.

On the other hand we cannot believe that an
environmental revolution is going to happen on the individual level, but by producing
behavioural shifts. One fear that environmental movements
are having right now is that keeping the environment as social struggles indoors implies leaving more space to the "techno-fixes", techno-solutions and online forums, but offers little space for social
organization, for social encounters, for social manifestation to socially pull
associate political action. which has actually been quite a big drive for social change. so we need to see how the right of
largest-scale political meetings and manifestations and the right to protest
is actually going to be kept and defended; as a kind of basic way of change in the system. In that sense I would say we could have
certain hopes of living indoors but we should also see whether our
capacity to be not so disciplined in terms of sticking to the
rules and organize in most subversive ways to the current neoliberal capitalist system, which needs to be disrupted for the health pandemics to decrease as well.

For that we need large-scale political
mobilization and also face-to-face meetings, and I don't think we need to
live in illusion that just staying inside a house will change the system a lot
and by online platforms only. We need also physical action and
and I'm not sure how that is going to happen. But okay let's know that we don't have all the questions, they don't
have the only answers and there are some issues to be resolved out there. One last question, my question and then we have two others
from our audience that I will pose you. The question is:
Can finally the house be the new base of that 21st century's revolution for a
better life because all the revolutions for something better happen outside and now sometimes we think that everything has to be inside; inside the family, inside the house,
inside a small part of ourselves.

So what do you think about
that? Can it be, probably? Anna? Yes, I think it can be. I think it's a good
place to start, yes. Filka? One of the elements of the revolution, but
only one, we need many others. And especially; the house is built on empathy
and mutuality and sharing, right? And how is this based on closeness? Which aspects are based on fear? Difference.
Fear of different ethnicities, fear of different cultures, and based on individualism and based on defending my own rights, defending my own space,
defending my own rights to consume, and be healthy without thinking of the
others. So I'm not going to be part of the revolution. We need to see and reconsider our homes as homes that are also open for empathy and solidarity.

Okay I would like to ask also one question
from our audience: Which are the activities that we are used
to do in our homes and which could best offer opportunities for community-building at different scales
if brought beyond the threshold of our homes? What do you think? Which are the
activities that we are used to do in our homes and which best offer opportunities
for community-building? In a state of confinement it's very
different. When we avoid meetings and meeting with others it's it's not so easy
to build communities But still there are multiple initiatives
that you could do from your homes. For example, in our neighbourhood we
started a group with all our neighbours to know how they're doing
and whether they need certain type of support if they need something to
be bought or whether they need to be delivered some some particular item, or whether they feel physically fine.

In that sense: little steps like
that, in terms of getting in touch with your immediate environment and knowing
how those around you are doing, including those people with whom you
never speak. That's one first step. And you could do that with existing technology. But still for community-building you need
commons. you need to kind of think about your common work and common
spaces. In the spaces you will have physical encounters at some point. In buildings
these common spaces are fundamental for community-building. Starting a common garden, holding you chicken together (of course that's more for our village
neighbourhood), let's say activities where you could offer
food to each other, in a distant way and many, many multiple
others, like creating parties or singing songs from each other's
balconies and multiple others. it is an endless conversation
actually about how you can start a community. That's a fact. there was
also another question. We will answer it shortly because there
is another episode, the episode 04 on June 2nd about Comfort, climate and
indoor health. and the question was what about indoor pollution Fame and
celebrity indoor so somehow and how is the climate inside our homes with all
this situation do you want to talk a little bit about this shortly? Yes, I can definitely see how it puts a different pressure on our homes to be home for multiple people, working all day.

You're looking at
what the ventilation is dimensioned for? Or, what I mentioned before as well,
like the access to daylight is a big issue here in the darker parts of the world. Although it's getting lighter now; so that's good. But yes. It
does require us to think how those spaces are to be used. Also noise reduction and things like that to allow multiple activities to take place in the home. It's a big topic
and could be expanded, I think. yes ok. Unfortunately we have to to close our conversation right now. It was very nice having you both in our topic and thank you very much
for contributing.

Our next episode is going to be on Tuesday and we are
awaiting you all again at 7 o clock [Greek time] Well, I hope you all enjoyed it. Have a
nice evening and see you next time bye!.

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